Jogging / running info help

[tic]

Originally Posted by Sarah

wait - rewind. joint pain already?

It's just an old ankle injury to comes and goes as it pleases like bad gases. Already had MRI on it several years ago and doc put me in an air boot for 1 month BUT it still bothers me now and again. This time around, I might have sprang it during basketball 3-4 weeks ago and taking it's sweet time healing. Basketball is soo much fun but causes sooo many injuriest (at least for me), kinda like unprotected sex...

But in short, Sarah, YEAH joint pain already; however, I am not sure if it's from running or other things.

[Sarah]

basketball and unprotected sex...hmmm...

i have joint pain too...but mine's from getting stepped on by a horse. acts up now and again too. mine's the knee - glucosamine condroiten (sp?) seems to do the trick. dunno if it'll work fo ryou

[tic]

Yup, I take exact same thing, glucosamine / chrontin whenever I play basketball or hiking for over 3 hours but it's not part of my daily diet.

[Focus]

Originally Posted by tic

Yup, I take exact same thing, glucosamine / chrontin whenever I play basketball or hiking for over 3 hours but it's not part of my daily diet.

Incase you're not aware, that stuff is generally only understood to work if you "build up levels of it" over the course of months of taking it faithfully. Sort of like creatine, but over a longer period.

So you'd probably be better off taking it every day, if you're gonna take it at all. I realize lots of people "feel" it working right away or what have you, but I prefer to go with what the science says since feelings usually have about as much relevance as fairy magic. ^_^

[tic]

Sorry Focus.. it's magical jelly beans for me. Yeah, I've read that it's suppose to be taken everyday but this crap does work over-night for me. It might be psyschological or what-not but I feel much better the next day after taking it versus not taking it. For example, my knuckle locks up every once in awhile so when it does I take it and poof, it's gone. When I don't, the "I hope not arithitus" persist...

[Sarah]

Has to be psychological....you need to add it to your daily diet to have a real impact on your body.

[Focus]

Originally Posted by tic

Sorry Focus.. it's magical jelly beans for me. Yeah, I've read that it's suppose to be taken everyday but this crap does work over-night for me. It might be psyschological or what-not but I feel much better the next day after taking it versus not taking it. For example, my knuckle locks up every once in awhile so when it does I take it and poof, it's gone. When I don't, the "I hope not arithitus" persist...

Sure, but what's the reason for not taking it all the time? If it works when taken occasionally, does it not stand to reason that it'd work even better when taken regularly?

The only thing that changes is you can't "feel" it working because you don't get to the point of "feeling" like you need it - which is, as far as your body is concerned even better than "feeling" it working.

Or is there meant to be some magic where it stops working because you have more than enough all the time?

If so, do you imagine your body stops absorbing carbs and/or fats because it's getting enough? "Fat joints" are good, damn you!

[Sarah]

tic - do you know the purpose of glucosamine chondroitin? from a long term perspective

[tic]

Originally Posted by Sarah

tic - do you know the purpose of glucosamine chondroitin? from a long term perspective

Actually, these are relatively new supplement product but I can kinda answer that question. The definition is from http://www.buzzle.com/articles/gluco...n-sulfate.html:

Glucosamine is an amino sugar occurring naturally in the body. Amino sugars are different from other body sugars as they form a part of carbohydrates. They are not a source of energy as other sugars, but help in maintaining body tissues including the cartilage. It helps in cartilage formation and repair. With increasing age, the body loses the capacity to produce enough glucosamine and the cartilage, mainly of the knees, deteriorates. The present cartilage hardens, forming bone spurs which cause immense pain and limits joint movement.

Chondroitin sulfate is a large protein molecule - proteoglycan - which gives and maintains cartilage elasticity. Chondroitin supplements are prepared from animal cartilage like bovine trachea, porcine / shark cartilage.

What actually gets worn down in the knees joint is prolytakin (I cannot spell that word) but it's micro-fibril branch like structure that have positive / negative charges at the end. It's this unique structure that allow the knee to have the LOWEST visciosity substance known to man. We cannot replicate anything like it at all. BUT my theory is that the combination of Glucosamine / Chondrotin helps the body to focus on repairing the joints; where glucosamine will be the catalyst that starts the process that uses chondroitin being the building blocks.

As for long term effects, sorry I not know. but here is a link (not sure how reliable it is) http://www.medicinenet.com/script/ma...ticlekey=14559. Oh, one thing when I had my mother take this supplement, her blood sugar level rose steadily. Not sure if it's from the supplement or what-not but I had her discontinue it. Sooo, if you have diabetes, consult your doctor if you should take this, and my guess is that you should not.

[tic]

You got me thinking / researching Sarah... here is what I found which is very interesting... might promote me to take this daily...:

This meta-analysis of available data shows that glucosamine and chondroitin sulfate may delay radiological progression of OA (osteoarthritis) of the knee after daily administration for over 2 or 3 years. from http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1...,f1000m,isrctn

What really concerns me about the long term is why does it effect diabetics so much? Will it cause people who have family history of diabetes (like me) to have diabetes at a younger age than what I should have? Currently there is NO long term study but there positive is that Glucosamine+chondrotin will help reduce OA if taken over 1 yr but I am still weary.... What I learn / study is that the human body is extremely effective and introducing this supplement / substance over long period of time might cause adaption issues (positive or negative). It might help one thing but surely hurt another, this is almost true of all supplements.

wwwaaaaaiiiittttt.. isn't this suppose to be about jogging? Sorry about digressing.

[Sarah]

who knows about long term effects? but really - it comes down to picking your poison

and it's still related to jogging

[tic]

I am puzzled on this supplement. On one hand, I want to reduce the wear and tear on my joints while repairing the damage but on the other hand I have a history of family diabetes so should I take Glucosamine+chrondritin daily or not? Maybe I shoud continue with what I am doing, take it on days that I endure lots of impact: jog / play basketball / hike.

[Sarah]

well hmmm. there are some other options...

MSM
Fenugreek
Celery Seed
Horseradish Tree
Tumeric
Ginger
Long Pepper
Indian Gooseberry
Tulsi/Holy Basil

will require more research on dosage and interactions or complications. FYI. Celery seed is a diuretic

[Focus]

Originally Posted by tic

I am puzzled on this supplement. On one hand, I want to reduce the wear and tear on my joints while repairing the damage but on the other hand I have a history of family diabetes so should I take Glucosamine+chrondritin daily or not? Maybe I shoud continue with what I am doing, take it on days that I endure lots of impact: jog / play basketball / hike.

You are way too active (not to mention, lean) to suddenly develop insulin resistance because you're taking glucosamine.

[jj29]

just an FYI, I had started taking glocosamine/chondroitin for my wrist...took it for a little over a month....my doctor said to save my money as it has only been shown to slightly help older people with extreme arthritis conditions.

[Beth66]

I have worked with several of the GAIT study researchers. In every "off the record" discussion I or my colleagues have had with them, they've said glucosamine/chondroitin doesn't work. Even the positive changes seen in the trials were modest at best and only seen in a small subset of the subjects. The authors were under a lot of pressure to not come out with a strong "this is crap" statement. They had to go data mining to find a portion of the population for which the supplements may actually work.

Glucosamine, chondroitin sulfate, and the two in c... [N Engl J Med. 2006] - PubMed result
The effect of glucosamine and/or chondroitin sulfa... [Arthritis Rheum. 2008] - PubMed result

That being said -- the placebo effect is a wonderful thing, and perhaps the G/S combo will prove to have long-term benefits.

[tic]

Yeah Beth66, I've heard that as well but from personal experience it really does help me. And I will swear it's not placebo, *shrug*. I am not trying to sale the supplement, personally I would not use supplement if it's up to me.

[Sarah]

personally I would not use supplement if it's up to me.

ditto that. although i think mother nature is on most drug companies payrolls

[Focus]

Those are some fairly shady studies, there.

Glucosamine isn't Nitric Oxide. But neither is it a guarantee of anything, especially in the absence of stimulus for adaptation. What good is a stockpile of raw materials if nobody's building anything?

[tic]

Here is another question: To jog / run while nursing a slight injury?

I am beginning to think that my left ankle is injuried from basketball a few weeks back and NOT from running or my shoe (if it's the shoe, my right ankle would be hurt now as well). While doing leg press, I noticed that my left ankle hurt a tad on the lift off as if the ankle is "hurt." Sooo.... should I continue to try to jog 30-120 minutes per day or switch to something less impact intensive like Stairmaster machine / rowing? If I don't train with some nicks / nack, I will never workout b/c I am always slightly hurt due to nature of well, being active (basketball, hiking, working out, etc).

[Sarah]

ok - yo know i'm going to say something - 2 hrs of jogging? what happened to working up to it?

and well, as focus pointed out in my journal, i'm not really the careful type but...you know when you're HURT and when you're just a bit off. if you are HURT act accordingly. if you are a bit off/ouchy then deal

[Focus]

It does what its told or it gets the broken again.

[tic]

hmm... interesting replies... I guess if it's just something small, suck it up... But if it keeps getting worse and worse, cut back or REST.

Thx for input.

[Focus]

You have to build specific work capacity very gradually, over long periods of time. There's no way around it. You either respect reality and gradually climb that mountain or you fall off and risk permanently losing the privilege of doing so.

Say no to "bro"!

[gt2003]

Originally Posted by Focus

You have to build specific work capacity very gradually, over long periods of time. There's no way around it. You either respect reality and gradually climb that mountain or you fall off and risk permanently losing the privilege of doing so.

Say no to "bro"!

Gosh, I hate to say this because I usually don't understand or have the patience to decode what Focus is saying but he's dead on here. Trust him. I lost respect for reality and paid the price. It's no fun being sidelined!!!! Be smarter than me and take his word for it. No need to get hurt in order to learn like I did.

[tic]

Originally Posted by gt2003

Gosh, I hate to say this because I usually don't understand or have the patience to decode what Focus is saying but he's dead on here. Trust him. I lost respect for reality and paid the price. It's no fun being sidelined!!!! Be smarter than me and take his word for it. No need to get hurt in order to learn like I did.

No way man. I rather get hurt than listen to Focus!!!! Physical pain fail in comparision to having to listen to Focus!!!! J.k. I guess I just need to listen to my body and take my own advice to newbie weight training, "Take is slow and steady to avoid injuries b/c once you're injuried, it takes longer to recover and stay motivated to continue once you do come back." I cannot bare to say it as you do GT2003....

[Focus]

Originally Posted by tic

I guess I just need to listen to my body and take my own advice to newbie weight training, "Take it slow and steady to avoid injuries b/c once you're injured, it takes longer to recover and stay motivated to continue once you do come back."

[i_love_muscle]

Originally Posted by tic

No way man. I rather get hurt than listen to Focus!!!! Physical pain fail in comparision to having to listen to Focus!!!! J.k. I guess I just need to listen to my body and take my own advice to newbie weight training, "Take it slow and steady to avoid injuries b/c once you're injured, it takes longer to recover and stay motivated to continue once you do come back." I cannot bare to say it as you do GT2003....

These are words you need to live by. The older you get, the more important those words will be for you

Your body is a temple -- and if you take care of it, chances are, it will take care of you, ceteris paribus

[Sarah]

bravo mo

[tic]

Another question for those that jog outside, where do you guys / gals put your stuff like car keys? Mine is attached to an alarm and it's too heavy in my short pockets so I wind up carrying them in my had but I dont' want to do that... I guess I can put the key in the car and carry back a rock....